Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/19/1996 02:42 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SRES 2/19/96
SB 257 TAKING FISH OR GAME FOR PUBLIC SAFETY
CHAIRMAN LEMAN called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to
order at 3:42 p.m. and announced SB 257 to be up for consideration.
SENATOR ZHAROFF, sponsor of SB 257, thanked the Committee for
scheduling the bill and said it addresses the interaction between
bears and humans particularly in the fall. He said there are some
legal mechanisms in place now for protection of life and property,
but in many cases there is a concern that when a peace officer is
asked to take care of the problem, they are facing possible
litigation as a result of not doing it correctly.
SB 257 gives the authority to the Commissioner to authorize the
taking of fish and game for public safety purposes. The second
portion gives the Board of Game the power to adopt regulations
regarding public safety and welfare. He found last fall that the
Board of Game needs statutory language to be able to identify and
actually authorize someone to take care of the problem. The intent
is not to arbitrarily take the predator at any notice. It does set
up the mechanism so the Board of Game could develop the regulations
and guidelines that are necessary.
SENATOR ZHAROFF said the main problem seems to center on garbage
bears who have gone beyond the dumps and are actually wandering in
and out of communities. It concerns mostly the safety of children
in the fall time of year.
Number 97
SENATOR LEMAN asked if this bill authorized the Department to stop
someone from harvesting for public safety reasons. SENATOR ZHAROFF
said he thought that mechanisms were already in place for any
endangerment of losing your property or if there is a life
threatening situation.
SENATOR LEMAN said he was concerned that the bill not go beyond
what Senator Zharoff is trying to accomplish.
Number 111
SENATOR TAYLOR said he was trying to understand why it was so
difficult to put down a bear in Angoon when in Juneau two years ago
17 bears were killed.
SENATOR LINCOLN said the copy of the memo from Commissioner Rue to
Commissioner Otte says one of the solutions would be for a VPSO to
have a permit if there wasn't a biologist or protection officer in
the community. Her community of Rampart doesn't have any type of
protection officer and she asked if that meant the village could
not take matters into their own hands.
SENATOR ZHAROFF said he hoped the Board of Game could address that
issue.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she hoped the Board would take into
consideration those communities, like Rampart, that don't have any
protection at all, because when a bear is in your smoke house you
can't wait to get permission or wait for an official to arrive.
SENATOR ZHAROFF said this bill is not an incentive to go out and
actually dispose of a bear, but to protect the public and to make
the public feel there is some cooperation between the State and
municipalities.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if he was informed that the Commissioner does
not have authority today to take a predator. SENATOR ZHAROFF said
the Department would have to address that, but he knew that the
Commissioner does have the authority in a life threatening
situation.
Number 210
CAPTAIN RICHARD GRAHAM, Department of Public Safety, said one of
his concerns at this point is who will be authorized to do the
"taking." Although, they feel it would be some sort of official.
In speaking with Colonel Godfrey, Director, Alaska State Troopers,
he found that he has some real concern with village public safety
officers becoming involved because of liability. Village public
safety officers may or may not have training in animal behavior and
they receive very little, if any, firearms training. He said he
wanted to work with the villagers on this issue.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he wanted someone to comment on the Haines
police officer being cited for shooting a bear. CAPTAIN GRAHAM
said he would research that and get back to him with the
information.
KEN TAYLOR, Deputy Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation,
said that SB 257 essentially expands the authority to permit the
taking of game for public safety reasons. During the past sessions
of the Board of Game they have wrestled with several issues
involving public safety in relation to wildlife and the Department
of Law has expressed concern that the Board does not really have
the authority to address public safety as a primary issue. So one
section in the bill addresses that.
MR. TAYLOR said the taking of game, while it is implicit in the
powers and duties of the Commissioner, it isn't explicitly stated.
It is important for the Commissioner to have the legal authority to
delegate the taking to another individual. If this legislation did
pass, they would work with the Department of Public Safety and
villages that have recurrent problems to address this issue. They
have problems with more than just bears, like with moose, also.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if this would affect the three resident moose
who live in his neighborhood who aren't causing any problems aside
from eating decorative trees. He asked if someone could use this
as authority to take them even if they aren't life threatening.
MR. TAYLOR answered that it alleviates the Department of Law's
concerns over their current defense of life and property
regulation. Nothing in this legislation would open opportunities
for the general public to take problem wildlife. This basically
makes it explicit in statute that the Commissioner does have the
authority to take wildlife that would allow him to delegate that
authority to the Department of Public Safety or DNR, if necessary.
It also clarifies the Board of Game's authority in relationship to
passing regulations dealing with public safety issues.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if a moose charging and stomping a dog team was
a different circumstance than trampling cabbages. MR. TAYLOR
replied that it would be and he doubted very much that a person
would be cited in that situation.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he wished he had the same confidence, because
he has seen people cited because a bear came into a prospecting
camp in the middle of the night and they killed it. There is also
the situation in Haines where a police officer was cited for
killing a bear. He said there was almost an egalitarian presence
within the Department that says no other human being has the common
sense to make a decision when a bear can be killed. MR. TAYLOR
said he thought this legislation would clarify those points.
Number 351
SENATOR LEMAN asked if this would give the Department authority to
stop takings that might otherwise be occurring now. He mentioned
an incident in Homer of a man who wanted to set a net and catch
fish and the Department was trying to stop him. MR. TAYLOR said he
hadn't looked at the language from that standpoint.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if the Board of Game now has regulations for
which it does not have statutory authority. MR. TAYLOR answered
that the Department of Law was concerned with the defense of life
and property regulation and there is also a law on the books that
allows permits to destroy nuisance beavers that are cutting
people's trees down, etc. There are a number of others.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if this bill would cover authority for the
mandatory hunter safety classes. MR. TAYLOR answered that it would
cover the Department of Law's concern on that issue.
SENATOR TAYLOR mentioned the memo from Commissioner Rue to
Commissioner Otte saying he did not want to wait until a
comprehensive wildlife human interaction plan is developed and
implemented before addressing the immediate problems faced by rural
residents. SENATOR TAYLOR did not think it was the rural
residents' problem, but rather a problem faced by the Department of
not having the legal authority for doing what they have been doing
for a period of time.
MR. TAYLOR replied since statehood it has been implicit that the
Commissioner has had the authority to authorize the employees to
take animals. Because that authority is not explicit in statute it
is very difficult to delegate to another entity.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked what assurances they have in the legislature
that cleaning up the statutory language won't be used to expand the
number of people who can dispose of problem bears. MR. TAYLOR
replied that at the fall Board of Game meeting this was discussed
extensively and it was decided that the first step would be to get
legislation introduced to allow a mechanism for both ADF&G and the
DPS to enter into a cooperative agreement to do this. He had been
designated as the contact person for DPS to work out a solution to
this problem.
SENATOR HOFFMAN reiterated Senator Lincoln's question about someone
who had prepared their fish all summer and their winter supply was
being endangered by a bear. MR. TAYLOR answered yes this
legislation would clarify the defense of life and property law.
SENATOR LINCOLN added that is only if the regulations are written
so that they don't say village public safety officer or another
official. She thought there should be another provision for
communities where none of those official capacities exist.
MR. TAYLOR replied that they hadn't worked through the details on
how the authority would be delegated from the Commissioner. That
is part of the problem they are going to try to address.
SENATOR TAYLOR thought that it was incomprehensible that the
Department was able to act under inherent authority for 30 years
with such dispatch (over 17 bears shot in Juneau two years ago).
He also thought it was fascinating that someone would contemplate
that we need a comprehensive wildlife human interaction plan.
Number 447
WAYNE REGELIN, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, said
they do have implicit authority that has been used for a long time
to take care of the problems when they have people on site. In
today's litigation, if we went to court, the Department of Law
says, for taking bears like this, we would probably lose. He said
they are looking ahead on this issue. Also, in rural Alaska where
there are problems with bears, if it's not endangerment of life and
property, then the laws come into effect and people can shoot the
bear. The problem is in villages like Angoon or King Cove where a
bear terrifies the villagers day after day. It's not imminent
danger, but the village is terrified. Now, he can't delegate
someone who is there to fix the problem. He didn't expect this to
happen very often.
MR. REGELIN related the Homer incident where the entrance to the
spit was not closed to fishing. Someone put their net in the water
and when ADF&G tried to change it, they weren't able to because it
was only for the purpose of public safety. That is why fish is
being kept in the bill. The net was for personal use, he said. the
situation was taken care of by the Homer City Council because the
Board of Fish did not have the authority. It's questionable that
the City Council had the authority, he added.
SENATOR ZHAROFF said he realized this bill was not a cure-all, and
they are working with communities to do other things like taking
care of their landfills.
CAPTAIN GRAHAM pointed out the defense of life and property
regulation would not necessarily go away with this legislation.
SENATOR TAYLOR said it sounded like common sense was not used in
the past in these prosecutions. People know how to handle the bear
problem, but they are afraid of the bureaucrat problem.
SENATOR HOFFMAN said that is exactly like an incident that happened
in Bethel this past fall.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he had never seen a lot of common sense used in
the enforcement field when it came to prosecutions in these cases.
He didn't have any faith that merely because the Department is
given specific authority that we're going to somehow end up with
either better regulations, or more efficient enforcement, or more
assistance to people in rural areas.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked why they didn't just give municipalities the
authority to handle any animal problems within their cities.
Number 575
SENATOR LINCOLN said she thought Senator Taylor's concerns were
addressed within the legislation to a great extent.
MR. REGELIN commented that you can't legislate good judgement, but
in some cases he could delegate authority over the phone to solve
animal problems. In most cases there is more time to deal with
these situations.
SENATOR LINCOLN moved SB 257 from Committee with individual
recommendations with the accompanying $0 fiscal note.
TAPE 96-16, SIDE B
Number 580
SENATOR TAYLOR objected for a comment. He thought the legislature
maybe should authorize home rule cities to take care of animal
problems. He said he had no objection to the bill and when it came
to Judiciary he would do everything he could to assist Senator
Zharoff. He, then, removed his objection.
There were no objections and SB 257 passed from Committee.
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